584 replies to this topic

[Silver Phantom]

Well that is exactly the Point.. Only tthe ones who pay, will be the ones who have a real interest in learning something. many of the Noobs will see a free session as an oppurtunity to get together, have chai, talk amongst themselves, and leave a blazing trail on the tarmac. The ones who pay, will not only be obligatory, but will also pay the max attention, and as Doc said, the turnout was less, but 100%. aint that much better than planning big, and having 90% dropouts.
As far as Desi Rossi's are concerened, they shall be omnipresent throughout the span of our lifes. cant do much about it. but those who attend and learn from the meet, will be the ones who advance the most, and despite the desi rossis overtaking us at every nook and corner, we will have the advantage of knowledge, and safety, so we can point and laugh at them when they have a big bike rammed up their ***, due to their own mistakes, but that shouldnt stop us from helping them.

[arn]

satyenpoojary, on 21 March 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

_{Pay for lunch sounds ok to me!
The only reason why I did not want it to be a money driven thing is that there are A LOT of noobs on streets who dont see a value on learning these things. Catching them, teaching them a few tricks could just spark the interest. I agree we have nothing to win in this deal, but atleast we would have some lesser local rossis to compete with!}

No, it's not about paying for the lunch

At our first aid course the lunch and the rest of the f&b cost peanuts. It really did. Our main cost was the med kit which we provided, anybody who has that kit can add it up and see what the figure comes to. But again, the idea is not to run at a no loss no profit basis. While the course took about 7 hrs of our time, we spent double that time getting everything in place, and it will be a similar situation for any course. In fact, the first time it will take at least 5 times the time of the actual course.

This course would not be for the kuchra, they will remain kuchra. As Silver Phantom has pointed out there is an endless supply of these

It's for those who want to learn proper riding skills and want to be RESPONSIBLE riders.

You or I cannot make them decide to be responsible or, as you say, "catch them" as they are going to start fidgeting around and scratching themselves after which they will slip your leash and run as soon as they start reaching the end of their attention span (ie, in about 2 min) . If they see no value in it if they do not get a paisa vasool lunch (and not the knowledge!), then I'll just let them be until they change their thinking. Goes without saying that I will not ride with them anywhere.

Having a syllabus would have the positive effect of letting prospective attendees know what they are getting for their money (entirely reasonable), as even I like to know what is in it for me when I attend continuing education courses (average spend = 4K/day, unless it is a "subsidized" material launch, when it will be 1.5K/day, hands on practical courses = 5-10K/day). It's up to the noob then to decide whether it is worth spending that money for what is on offer.

If he feels it is his right to be taught free, at his convenience, a few minutes at a time as suits him, he's welcome to find a teacher who feels the same way.

[satyenpoojary]

Can I suggest that we have the course outlined and the basics prized extremely reasonably, and the rest of it based on the difficulty levels or so...?
That way it would suit many a folks

[NikhilB]

@arn

With all due respect, more than a couple of grand a day is bordering on prohibitive for your target audience.

You could argue on the "price for safety", but a better approach would be to convince your audience of the same.

I'd agree with Satyen's suggestion of having a "reasonably" priced basics course.

PS: Most would be put off (rightly or wrongly is debateable) if they learn that it is not on a no profit/no loss basis.

[Silver Phantom]

NikhilB, on 22 March 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

@arn

With all due respect, more than a couple of grand a day is bordering on prohibitive for your target audience.

You could argue on the "price for safety", but a better approach would be to convince your audience of the same.

I'd agree with Satyen's suggestion of having a "reasonably" priced basics course.

PS: Most would be put off (rightly or wrongly is debateable) if they learn that it is not on a no profit/no loss basis.

I would suggest a fee within the  range of 500/= to 1000/=. I guess that would include the course material, Sesssion duration, and Lunch..

[arn]

Nice inputs and different POVs, keep them coming!

As regards the lunch for the first aid course, we supplied it  to ensure that people did not wander off to all points of the compass in search of lunch and then have post lunch naps in places without network, holding up the afternoon session. No need to supply lunch for this kind of course, it can be a dhaba stop, everybody buys what he wants to eat.

There would have to be at least two people holding the course, and if the group size is 10 - 15, even 300 bucks is a reasonable fee, and if that stops somebody from coming, it will be through choice, not compulsion. Especially as we'll insist on safety gear being compulsory, which at the very least (knee + elbow guards + boots) will cost nothing less than 1500 bucks. The reason for pointing out the kind of fees we pay is just so as to put the thing into some perspective - 2K for a college kid is a kings ransom. Somebody uncomfortable about paying for other people's time....don't know what to say

Now the basics v/s advanced course. We'd have to see how much course material we have , for starters. I think we'd only really be in a position to teach the basic do's and dont's, as there is NO substitute for miles under the belt. Besides, once somebody has done a couple of trips incl one of 300+km, I don't think he'd be completely raw anymore - and would not require intensive teaching/inputs just the occasional pointer, and I'd hesitate to charge for that as one can enjoy such a ride, as opposed to keeping a hawk eye on the flock of learners for riding errors. But all this after working out a syllabus.

Another point - for "advanced riders" we could have meets where we discuss topics  that are not required a the noob level at one day get togethers, where we could combine a 3 hr discussion session with a ride to some destination like say, Jawhar. Topics might be a practical session on how to fix tubeless flats, troubleshooting minor electrical problems or multi day trip planning. Again, this is not something where there is any money component involved, especially when different people can cover different topics.

I don't think I'll be in a position to post after tomorrow as I will be going out of town till next Thursday - if you guys can individually make a list by then of what you think should be covered, there will be less chance of something important being left out

[satyenpoojary]

Any thing less than 500 rs including lunch is pretty reasonable IMO.

What I intended to explain to noobs was
0. Basics in riding: Visibilty, Lane switching, turning, riding in night
1. Know your bike (in terms of concepts like weight distribution, brake types)
2. Throttle control (which is why I was saying Ghodbunder)
3. Braking
4. Panic Braking
5. Formation riding

Advanced Courses:
1. Riding in dirt\muck
2. Riding in Rain
3. Night Riding
4. Basic Troubleshooting

[Centaur]

Nice....
...to be back after a long time
...and the initiative as well.

Are the dates finalized as yet? Have to synchronize with family chores...

[satyenpoojary]

Centaur, on 23 March 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Nice....
...to be back after a long time
...and the initiative as well.

Are the dates finalized as yet? Have to synchronize with family chores...

As of now finalizing on the scope, once we are done that, we would have a syllabus in place... everyone is encouraged to contribute to it, both for content as well as what topics should be covered!

[NikhilB]

How about some very basic troubleshooting in the beginners course?
Something like fixing tubeless tyres, Must-have tools for a ride, etc.

Also, riding in the rain is one of the first mistakes committed by a beginner (had my first incident in the rains).
How about something basic like, Avoid braking on surfaces like manhole covers, lane painting. How to brake in rains. etc.

[satyenpoojary]

We could cover some basics of rain riding, but the DIY things are best done with practise and tools... I think the advanced level is the right level for that...

[razorBlades]

some thoughts from my side


0. Basics in riding: riding in traffic, use of indicators, knowing the limitation of the bike and the rider, basic cornering (not like css but common mistakes )

5. Formation riding : basic signals in formation riding, etiquette, do's and dont's, respect fellow riders and the people on road!

6. how to buy the right riding gear? (helmet  fit, jacket fit like shoulder pads et all, rain gear)



Advanced Courses:

0. Touring : Preparing the motorcycle, basic things needed for a long tour, hydration, handling the highway traffic (trucks et all), do's and dont's

[motionfreak]

I'm totally in for this. Just like last time, Aarey colony G2G, we can have this anytime.
I think the guys who know about these things should start conducting such G2Gs in their respective neighborhoods.
Why wait for it to be official? Few months back Thane guys had one such G2G at my place, (5-8 guys only)

It's the advanced course, which will need proper planning.
Cop free location, 2-3 bikes for everyone to try eg commuter like uni/splendor. cruiser like avy, one be a RE and tourers eg zma etc
( if we can include food too, then it will be awesome)
Arn, you, Gopy, DK, Tushar are perfect for advanced things.

Quote

Basic Course
0. Basics in riding: Visibilty, Lane switching, turning, riding in night
1. Know your bike (in terms of concepts like weight distribution, brake types)
2. Throttle control (which is why I was saying Ghodbunder)
3. Braking
4. Panic Braking
5. Formation riding
6. Basic trouble shooting
7. First Aid ( in last ride tried to make a list of blood grps and everyone went . this GIR G2G proved that it is necessary)
(8. How to keep smiling and make everyone enjoy the G2G by Winzikanth )

Advanced Courses:
1. Riding in dirt\muck
2. Riding in Rain
3. Night Riding
4. Basic trouble shooting

Let me know your views too

AFAIK, Electricals will be in Basic course.

It's not like making money out of this exercise, but things to be covered in advanced course will cost a few bucks. It's better to share the cost and not to put the burden on few guys (gurus), who really don't need to waste their energy and time for us. They will do this for our betterment.

One more thing to be considered, is the topics covered under advanced course are quite focused. We want only those people, who are really interested in applying the knowledge gained, in daily commuting and pleasure rides.

or It will be like Gopy is explaining about AGATT and, at the back, few guys, in T-shirts, are pulling wheelies.

(cpy psted frm der)

[blackmagic]

Wow .. are we discussing about this ... during the meet tonight !! ?? ..

[satyenpoojary]

So what did you all discuss in the meet "tonight"